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Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown - World News

Hi Chelsea,
With equal respect, I helped in a small way to found the EIPR in 2002,
I've followed their work for a decade, and I have clear memories of
what their original mission was --- as well as of the climate of
indifference they were originally responding to. I don't think it's a
question of attacking them. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with
expressing a disappointment which I think is common among some
communities here in Egypt. It would have been possible to say, in the
context of the article, something on the order of: "LGBT issues are a
priority for us as a question of the right to privacy and freedom from
government interference, which is a priority for all Egyptians." That
would have been perfectly consistent with the EIPR's original vision.
Saying "It's not a priority," as a general defensive dismissal, is
not. It's possible they were misquoted, since I don't think the
article is very accurate in general, but it's of a piece with other
things that have been said in the last few years.

Of course the EIPR is overstretched. Everybody in civil society in
Egypt is overstretched. But they're the best-funded human rights group
in the country, and at the moment one of the least vulnerable. If they
can't express a moderate degree of public support, nobody in the
country can or will.


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:29 PM, <chelsea.ricker@gmail.com> wrote:
> With all due respect, I have worked with EIPR for the past year and found them to be a dedicated if over-stretched ally. I'm not sure what good attacking them in this forum will do for any of us.
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Long <scottlong1980@gmail.com>
> Sender: sogi-list-bounces@arc-international.net
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:38:20
> To: Faisal Alam<alam.faisal@gmail.com>
> Cc: <faisalalam.progressivemuslims@blogger.com>; <mpvusa@groups.facebook.com>; Parvez Sharma<parvezsharma@gmail.com>; Sogi List list<sogi-list@arc-international.net>; <faisalalam.queermuslims2192@blogger.com>
> Subject: Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown
> - World News
>
> "The Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights is a human rights group
> that will talk about gays but this cause is not a priority for them."
> Oddly enough, the EIPR was founded in 2002 partly as a response to
> other human rights organizations that said exactly the same thing,
> word for word. People change, and as a result things don't.
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Faisal Alam <alam.faisal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16644770-getting-worse-egypts-gays-fear-government-crackdown?lite
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Check out more stories at
>>
>>
>> Sent from iPhone.
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Long
> Visiting Fellow, Human Rights Program
> Pound Hall 401
> Harvard Law School
> Harvard University
> Cambridge, MA 02138
> Website: www.paper-bird.net
> Tel.: (+1) 718-223-0808 (cell)
> E-mail: scottlong1980@gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> sogi-list mailing list: sogi-list@arc-international.net
> Manage subscription / options abonnement / administrar suscripcion: http://lists.arc-international.net/mailman/listinfo/sogi-list
> Policies & FAQs / Politiques et FAQ / Politicas y preguntas frecuentes: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv
> Recommend new member / nouvel abonnement / nueva suscripcion: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv/subscription



--
Scott Long
Visiting Fellow, Human Rights Program
Pound Hall 401
Harvard Law School
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
Website: www.paper-bird.net
Tel.: (+1) 718-223-0808 (cell)
E-mail: scottlong1980@gmail.com

Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown - World News

Greetings everyone, hope you are all doing well.

I was reading this article earlier this morning, and I have few concerns about:

·         First, for an article entitled "Egypt's gays fear government crackdown", this article seemed like a facilitation offered to the government, asking for an actual crack-down. After talking to some individuals who have spoken to Duncan Golestani, I learned they have asked him clearly not to mention some details, yet he did. So, I can see that this article holds no true concern for any cause; it is a very exaggerating post, where the author is obviously trying to make it as sexy as possible. I got the sense that it is exposing many people to danger, not only individuals but also private communities.

 

·    Second, it makes no sense to believe that new laws might be created to discriminate against homosexuals, or to criminalize homosexuality. Homosexual acts already fall into the category of debauchery in the Egyptian law, which is better for the government than having a law stating "we arrest gay people" to minimize the amount of international rage as much as possible. So, the MB themselves do not need that sort of battle right now.

 

·         About EIPR, I'm sorry, but I totally agree with what Scott had said about how the administration has forgotten or at least sidelined the actual cause upon which EIPR was founded in 2002. My reservation about their performance is they are trying to stay as far as possible from being stigmatized as an LGBT NGO or an NGO that works "excessively" on such issues. I have been around at the trial of the 7 young gay men who got arrested last year. It's true that the EIPR was providing legal support, and they deserve to be commended, but I think it goes too far to describe the efforts as "devoted".

 

·        Last, I'm not sure if it is getting worse. It seems to me that there is an escalating sense of identity among homosexuals, and also a sense of community and unity somehow. In comparison with those years when homosexuals' spaces where actually cracked down regularly, I think we are standing a bit far from stating "it gets worse", yet equally far from saying "it gets better".

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:29 PM, <chelsea.ricker@gmail.com> wrote:

With all due respect, I have worked with EIPR for the past year and found them to be a dedicated if over-stretched ally. I'm not sure what good attacking them in this forum will do for any of us.

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Long <scottlong1980@gmail.com>
Sender: sogi-list-bounces@arc-international.net
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:38:20
To: Faisal Alam<alam.faisal@gmail.com>
Cc: <faisalalam.progressivemuslims@blogger.com>; <mpvusa@groups.facebook.com>; Parvez Sharma<parvezsharma@gmail.com>; Sogi List list<sogi-list@arc-international.net>; <faisalalam.queermuslims2192@blogger.com>
Subject: Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown
        - World News

"The Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights is a human rights group
that will talk about gays but this cause is not a priority for them."
Oddly enough, the EIPR was founded in 2002 partly as a response to
other human rights organizations that said exactly the same thing,
word for word. People change, and as a result things don't.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Faisal Alam <alam.faisal@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16644770-getting-worse-egypts-gays-fear-government-crackdown?lite
>
> ---
>
> Check out more stories at
>
>
> Sent from iPhone.



--
Scott Long
Visiting Fellow, Human Rights Program
Pound Hall 401
Harvard Law School
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
Website: www.paper-bird.net
Tel.: (+1) 718-223-0808 (cell)
E-mail: scottlong1980@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
sogi-list mailing list: sogi-list@arc-international.net
Manage subscription / options abonnement / administrar suscripcion: http://lists.arc-international.net/mailman/listinfo/sogi-list
Policies & FAQs / Politiques et FAQ / Politicas y preguntas frecuentes: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv
Recommend new member / nouvel abonnement / nueva suscripcion: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv/subscription
_______________________________________________
sogi-list mailing list: sogi-list@arc-international.net
Manage subscription / options abonnement / administrar suscripcion: http://lists.arc-international.net/mailman/listinfo/sogi-list
Policies & FAQs / Politiques et FAQ / Politicas y preguntas frecuentes: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv
Recommend new member / nouvel abonnement / nueva suscripcion: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv/subscription

--

Ramy Youssef

Faculty of Economics and Political Science

Cairo University
No.: +2 0101 8728 872 0

Website: cairocolors.wordpress.com

Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown - World News

With all due respect, I have worked with EIPR for the past year and found them to be a dedicated if over-stretched ally. I'm not sure what good attacking them in this forum will do for any of us.

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Long <scottlong1980@gmail.com>
Sender: sogi-list-bounces@arc-international.net
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:38:20
To: Faisal Alam<alam.faisal@gmail.com>
Cc: <faisalalam.progressivemuslims@blogger.com>; <mpvusa@groups.facebook.com>; Parvez Sharma<parvezsharma@gmail.com>; Sogi List list<sogi-list@arc-international.net>; <faisalalam.queermuslims2192@blogger.com>
Subject: Re: [sogi] 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown
- World News

"The Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights is a human rights group
that will talk about gays but this cause is not a priority for them."
Oddly enough, the EIPR was founded in 2002 partly as a response to
other human rights organizations that said exactly the same thing,
word for word. People change, and as a result things don't.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Faisal Alam <alam.faisal@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16644770-getting-worse-egypts-gays-fear-government-crackdown?lite
>
> ---
>
> Check out more stories at
>
>
> Sent from iPhone.



--
Scott Long
Visiting Fellow, Human Rights Program
Pound Hall 401
Harvard Law School
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
Website: www.paper-bird.net
Tel.: (+1) 718-223-0808 (cell)
E-mail: scottlong1980@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
sogi-list mailing list: sogi-list@arc-international.net
Manage subscription / options abonnement / administrar suscripcion: http://lists.arc-international.net/mailman/listinfo/sogi-list
Policies & FAQs / Politiques et FAQ / Politicas y preguntas frecuentes: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv
Recommend new member / nouvel abonnement / nueva suscripcion: http://arc-international.net/network-development/sogi-listserv/subscription

Re: 'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown - World News

"The Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights is a human rights group
that will talk about gays but this cause is not a priority for them."
Oddly enough, the EIPR was founded in 2002 partly as a response to
other human rights organizations that said exactly the same thing,
word for word. People change, and as a result things don't.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Faisal Alam <alam.faisal@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16644770-getting-worse-egypts-gays-fear-government-crackdown?lite
>
> ---
>
> Check out more stories at
>
>
> Sent from iPhone.



--
Scott Long
Visiting Fellow, Human Rights Program
Pound Hall 401
Harvard Law School
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
Website: www.paper-bird.net
Tel.: (+1) 718-223-0808 (cell)
E-mail: scottlong1980@gmail.com

'Getting worse': Egypt's gays fear government crackdown - World News

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16644770-getting-worse-egypts-gays-fear-government-crackdown?lite

---

Check out more stories at


Sent from iPhone.

NBC/WSJ poll: Majority, for first time, want abortion to be legal - First Read

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16626932-nbcwsj-poll-majority-for-first-time-want-abortion-to-be-legal?lite

---

Check out more stories at


Sent from iPhone.

Mosque Alert - The Imam and the Homosexual

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/ee37015esPU


Sent from iPhone.

Nancy Wilson, Gay Pastor, To Participate In Inaugural Interfaith Prayer Service At National Cathedral

More history being made. 

Nancy Wilson, Gay Pastor, To Participate In Inaugural Interfaith Prayer Service At National Cathedral

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/21/nancy-wilson-gay-pastor-presidential-inauguration_n_2521037.html?icid=hp_religion_art_more

Obama Makes History By Citing Gay Rights in an Inaugural Address - ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18275341&sid=77

"Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well," Obama said in his address on the Capitol steps after his swearing in.

Obama also mentioned the word Stonewall when citing milestones of the civil right struggle. It was a reference to a riot and subsequent protests over a police raid in June 1969 of the Stonewall Inn, a gay bar in New York City's Greenwich Village. The president mentioned it along with the first women's rights convention held in Seneca Falls, N.Y., in 1848 and the civil rights march in Selma, Ala., in 1965.

Sent from iPhone. 

For 1st time, gay rights get shoutout in inaugural speech - U.S. News

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16627631-for-1st-time-gay-rights-get-shoutout-in-inaugural-speech?lite


Sent from iPhone.

Saudi activists say they won't be silenced

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/world/meast/saudi-activists-trial/index.html

(CNN) - As he was falling asleep, the father of five turned to his wife and said he hopes it will all be worth it someday.

Maybe someday, Mohammed Al-Qahtani said, his daughter be able to walk somewhere without a male guardian. Maybe someday, she'll be able to drive a car without fear of arrest.

"Maybe I'm dreaming," Al-Qahtani said. "My newborn daughter, maybe one day she will vote for the prime minister in Saudi Arabia.

"Of course, there will be a price to be paid, and we are more than willing to pay that price."

Sent from iPhone.